Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

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Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by Admin on Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:04 pm

One of the big problems with not having numbers incorporated into our systems is the fact that it's hard to gauge illness, injury, and fatigue: All of it must be ear, so to speak, and there's a lot of flexibility as to just what characters are able to do despite such ailments.

I haven't thought of an article yet, but I figure that everyone can think of a couple things to make this concept work.

For example, states of injury on body parts, such as blunt injury, pierce injury, profuse bleeding, internal bleeding, sprains, broken bone, torn tendons, organ injury, organ failure, and so on. Even if we don't have blatant "states" for each body part, we at least need to define each section as it applies to RoKK for people to understand their characters capabilities during times of combat or emergency.

This also calls for just how we're going to handle healthcare, medicine, and healing magic, and who people would typically go to for care. Priests in some areas would certainly be the go-to figures, and so would merchants in others, selling (quite possibly fake) tonics and powders. Would society in this case be so advanced as to have an entire class of doctors, or would there be a lesser class of apothecaries that are likely tied to the state?

How prevalent is surgery? How should we handle battlefield medicine?

This is here to generate discussion about these concepts so that we can eventually hammer something out.
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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by CromTheConqueror on Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:00 am

ALL HUMAN BEINGS DESERVE BASIC HEALTH. THIS SHOULD BE THE MOTTO OF THE CONCLAVE. THEY SHALL BANKRUPT THEIR ORDER IN ORDER TO HEAL THE PEOPLE. IN TURN THEY WILL SUBSEQUENTLY INCREASE THE POWER OF THEIR ECONOMY BY STIMULATING IT THROUGH MASS CASUAL SEX.

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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by CromTheConqueror on Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:03 am

CromTheConqueror wrote:ALL HUMAN BEINGS DESERVE BASIC HEALTH. THIS SHOULD BE THE MOTTO OF THE CONCLAVE. THEY SHALL BANKRUPT THEIR ORDER IN ORDER TO HEAL THE PEOPLE. IN TURN THEY WILL SUBSEQUENTLY INCREASE THE POWER OF THEIR ECONOMY BY STIMULATING IT THROUGH MASS CASUAL SEX.

THAT IS BULLSHIT! TENS OF THOUSANDS OF COMPLETELY PREVENTABLE DEATHS MUST BE ALLOWED TO CONTINUE WHILE WE AGONIZE 24/7 OVER 6 PEOPLE KILLED IN KIRATH. WAR IS THE SOLUTION TO SAVING LIVES. NOT ACTUALLY SAVING LIVES!

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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by Admin on Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:22 am

Drugs are bad, Crom, remember?

Can we get any actual input here?
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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by CromTheConqueror on Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:57 pm

That was actual input.

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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by MidgetNinja on Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:09 am

Ok magic applicable to healing = YES

Mage's being more long lived then normal humans = YES

Injury stats = HELL THE F**K NO!!!

Priest as go to guys for medicine = Depends on the God they worship...and the aliment

Apothecaries > Doctors at this point

Surgery exists, but aside from butchers, only nobles can properly afford them.

Battlefield medicine is...a rather small detail that doesn't bare much thought outside of 'it exists' and 'it's medieval level technology people use your imagination.'

Did I mention that obsessing over minor details are probably going to bog us down and destroy us?

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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by CromTheConqueror on Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:43 pm

MidgetNinja wrote:Ok magic applicable to healing = YES

Mage's being more long lived then normal humans = YES

Injury stats = HELL THE F**K NO!!!

Priest as go to guys for medicine = Depends on the God they worship...and the aliment

Apothecaries > Doctors at this point

Surgery exists, but aside from butchers, only nobles can properly afford them.

Battlefield medicine is...a rather small detail that doesn't bare much thought outside of 'it exists' and 'it's medieval level technology people use your imagination.'

Did I mention that obsessing over minor details are probably going to bog us down and destroy us?

I love you a lot right now MN.

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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by Admin on Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:50 pm

We still need a whole healing magic deal that isn't stupid and makes sense within our bounds.

Why are mages more long lived? Because of said magic?

And fine. I just thought that after battles or whatever that characters need to go somewhere to heal, but we didn't have anywhere properly established and at least some minor thought had to go into it for when the need arises.
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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by MidgetNinja on Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:51 pm

Okay, fair enough they were written in a moment of frustration, I imagine mages live longer if only because mana flows through them and is refreshed more frequently then other beings.

Which would inadvertently flush their bodies of death energy at semi regular intervals.

Which would also explain healing magic...it's just restoring the natural flow of mana in another's body so that it can properly heal itself.

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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by Admin on Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:54 am

I have no idea how mana flushes death energy that's corrupting life, and I've never heard of this before either.

Care to elaborate?
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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by MidgetNinja on Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:12 am

I don't know man, I don't have a degree in metaphysical theorem. Elaboration, getting bogged down in details...it's killing us do you understand?

What do you want from me man?

Honestly, what are expecting that causes this...FEAR of anything vaguely defined!?!

Cause all it's doing is bogging us down in a big anal retentive cluster f**k of information. My God man use your imagination before it shrivels up and dies on us.

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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by CromTheConqueror on Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:44 pm

Not sure if you joking or not MN (sarcasm meter broke today. Really need a new one) but I don't really see anything wrong with Chaos question. I agreed with everything you stated before but there is nothing wrong with coming up for a reason mages are long lived.

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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by Admin on Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:32 pm

It's actually more of me thinking that MN pulled something spontaneously from his ass that I'm not sure will actually work given the lore we currently have, and I can't find an angle where it can be developed backwards, so to speak, to actually be specifically defined. If he can come up with something I'll certainly hear him out, but as is it's just an interesting albeit unheard-of-at-this-point concept.

That, and not really sure that 'mana flows through them' better?

Also, the fact that mages are able to kaboom themselves for Fun nicely counteracts the potential for most of them to live very long lives, so while they as a whole can live longer than non-mages, only relatively few will get that far.
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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by CromTheConqueror on Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:35 pm

Well, they might off themselves but still the point is that they bare the potential for increased longevity. I'll try to think up how that works.

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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by Admin on Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:54 pm

Alright, sounds good, but MN may want to hold you off on that so he can put his ideas forth... unless he really doesn't have much.
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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by MidgetNinja on Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:58 pm

Basically as I understand the mana system, when you use up all the mana in a specific area, or being, new mana instantly flows into that area/being to take it's place.

Theoretically the Death energy tainting the mages at this point would get caught up inside all of that mana as they cast spells...unleashing a bit of death energy alongside mana every time they cast spells.

Thus inadvertently cleansing themselves of the thing that makes them mortal. Albiet only a small bit at a time.

The way that it could work for injuries is simply that, after cleansing a host sufficiently in a concentrated manner, the natural life energy within them would reassert itself and increase the healing process naturally.

I'm not sure how well the mages would...understand the concept of why exactly it works the way it does. They would probably just know that it does work, and accept it as such until such a time as they can figure out why...

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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by GrayWatch on Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:44 pm

My first reaction to mages being more long lived is:
"They are?"
followed shortly by
"Shouldn't that be the other way around?"

Magic in it's current form of I don't have-a-damn-clue-anymore sounds like it would actually be pretty rough on the body. I think it might make more sense for mages to die early.

Or well, early for a human who lives in relative luxury/power. Which is to say, still longer lived than peasents.
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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by MidgetNinja on Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:48 pm

I was more speaking of the old 'master' mages as it were...

The ones that have either minimized or neutralized the ill affects altogether.

Sure younger mages would probably be more prone to...blowing themselves up then not, but the potential still exists nonetheless.

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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by GrayWatch on Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:13 am

yes, but they're still channeling the raw forces which bind and tie the universe together through their god-damn brains.

Even if they get the pressure and flow etc. etc. just right so the 'pipe' that in this analogy represents their body doesn't outright explode, the contents of the pipe is basically super lava. Which is a lot like regular lava only instead molten rock it's made of melted diamonds, rage, The Man Your Man Could Smell Like and liquid stars that have learned to hate, all melded and folded together into one homogeneous substance that has the same effect on touching the pipe as if you used aforementioned pipe to bar Chuck Norris from his breakfast steak.
In case it wasn't clear the super-lava represents the raw power of magic.

Sure the pipe is 70 miles thick and heals slowly when not channeling super lava, but this doesn't mean that it's not BAD for it.
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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by Admin on Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:03 pm

So right now we need to figure out the effects of magic on someone who uses it, whether it is inherently harmful to their system despite not being a target of feedback, or if it 'flushes' their system of their inherent mana and new mana flows into them, somehow offsetting the effects of death energy.

Official Ruling on the Topic (As in the original post topic): A large mixture of available services that is determined locally.
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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by Spuggy on Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:26 am

Admin wrote:Also, the fact that mages are able to kaboom themselves for Fun nicely counteracts the potential for most of them to live very long lives, so while they as a whole can live longer than non-mages, only relatively few will get that far.

This is a kind of Terry Pratchet rule where the old mages would all die constantly because of assassinations, exploding each other, exploding themselves (with stupid spells that failed), would attract the unwanted attention of a god, etc, thus the younger generations decide not to use magic all that much.

BUT SERIOUSLY.

In general if you get injured, you should let it heal. People may have died a lot in the middle ages due to injuries and diseases which today could be easily treated, but people still lived long enough to be considered old and pass on their farms to fully grown children. That said, a person eating well and staying fit and healthy (like a young knight or noble) is going to suffer much less from injury (which will be most of our characters except for people that like to play impoverished peasants and underfed mages). I'm not entirely sure how to implement this game wise so that everyone is happy, but just throwing that up there. We should probably get timeframes, like the speed of the games running, up first since this is the major thing that injury affects. Then magic. Then this.

Now as for using magic... Midget, even if you are "flushing out the death energy" you are still flushing out your own essence and basically causing a whole lot of havoc to your own structure. Magic is pretty much always accepted to take a rigorous toll on both the body and mind. Think Acria. She was fucked. The main thing keeping her together was the magic she wove around herself. If she was suddenly deprived of the ability to wield her magic, she'd be likely to appear much older and weaker than she already does. It is one of the things that makes mortals cool anyway, in my opinion. Here we are, relatively weak creatures of small consequence and brittle shells, enduring whirlwinds of chaos and mana and grabbing the threads of destiny with scarred, calloused hands and the force of our will.

Thats fuck yeah humanity.

The only thing I'd be worried about with injuries in general is keeping people out of actions for lengthy periods of time.

Medicine (because this is kinda a seperate idea from everything else I just wrote)

Think of it like this. There will almost always be an apothecary or local hedge wizard to do this for the peasants, and at least one religion in an area will dabble in healing. This is one of the major concerns of folk - death and illness. From this we might get the mundane forms of healing such as herbs and people knowledgable in the setting of broken bones, vodka and rest. In addition, surgeons throughout history have said that "the battlefield is the truest school and calling of the surgeon", reason being that you have a constant stream of people to hone your skills on. Sure, people will die from infection (and if you intend to use magic you could do things like use a kind of healing fire or water to burn that away or soothe the wound) but you learn how to amputate gangrenous legs, stop blood loss, open hemorraging (i don't know how to spell that) internal wounds that will kill the person because of the sheer pressure and building of blood, fix lung punctures, etc. You may only have a few people truly skilled in this, yet a few battlefield surgeons and people with a knowledge of herbs could increase the longetivity of your soldiers... a bit.
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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by Admin on Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:12 am

I like pretty much everything in your post, Bronx. However, getting timeframes settled, especially at this time, would be difficult at best.

Your example of Acria is a pretty good one (excluding the misnomer that her major power is magical, where instead it is all plot-devicey from Kar'Kaish to make chaos and such with) in that she would just be a frail, withering creature if she didn't have those powers.

Oh, and Bronx, we should really get to work on some military skeleton systems...
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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by Spuggy on Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:08 am

Right you are. Before I go dredging up all the articles you guys have written, what is the general aim in regards to characters and militaries? What visions are predominant about it right now?
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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by MidgetNinja on Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:10 am

Might want to write up another Topic directly about that bronx...and we'll work in there alright?

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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

Post by MidgetNinja on Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:53 pm

Okay here's my take on it, and let me put in the possibly more clarifying terms of a metaphor...

Your ceiling is being damaged by smoke...the wall paper is peeling away...and the water in the tub is boiling...which problem do you solve first?

None of them, because your house is on fire.

You have to understand, human being's in this universe were designed by a race of life worshiping deities that designed them to LAST. San's the literal death seeping up from, and infecting, the ground around them they would essentially be immortal...and therefore MUCH harder to kill...

A cleansing...while probably VERY rigorous on the body and mind...would essentially be like hitting the 'restart' button. You put out the fire and then you can start rebuilding your house.

Except in this case your house is you...and you rebuild yourself...


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Re: Illness, Injury, and Fatigue: Healthcare, Medicine, and Healing Magic

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